Kude wrote:



You can't force players to play a more diverse deck when they've already sat down to the table with a constructed deck.

Making another card that punishes specialization, like "Victim of Habit" mentioned by Dorrinal is not a bad idea. I would stay away from duplicating that effect however.

The other direction you could take is making a card that benefits a "toolbox" deck rather than hamper other decks.

How about:

"Parallel Aggression"

If this referendum is successful, each Methuselah may remove any number of cards from his or her ash heap from the game. His or her prey loses X-2 pool where X is the number of different card types removed.

"Limited Movement"
Event.
Gehenna. Do not replace until a Methuselah has been ousted.
Any minion may burn a duplicate card in his or her prey's ash heap to bleed with +1 bleed action. Any Methuselah may take a discard action to remove any number of cards from his or her ash heap.

"Bucket List"
Unique master.
Put this card in play. When you would move a card to your ash heap, attach it to this card if there is not a card of that card type already. You may take a master phase action to burn this card and gain X pool where X is the number of cards attached to this card.

"Tool"
Master. Archtype.
Once each turn, this vampire may take an action while tapped. This vampire may not bleed and attempt a political action on the same turn.

"Tool" (alt)
Master. Archtype.
When this vampire successfully acts, you may untap this vampire by playing a reaction card that untaps a vampire or allows a vampire to act as if untapped. If this vampire is untapped at the end of your turn, he or she gains a blood.

direwolf wrote:

Completely broken with Madness Network.

Eugh. This card is so harsch the requirements aren't enough. Something this disavantageous to pretty much everyone at the table should require at least two, or possibly three, Gehenna in play.

Though best if it's not printed at all

Kude wrote:


Doing this on a per-turn basis is unhelpful, though. There are quite a few toolbox-y decks out there that go through phases. In particular, cards that have more than one very distinct use are the foundation of quite a few solid decks. But the deck may go through phases. I want to rush two or three times, now I want to bleed a few times to oust my prey.

vekn.net/index.php/forum/7-deck-clinic/31312-the-sharks-brujah is an interesting, recent example. Use Entrancement Enchant Kindred a lot at superior to bring people out, and mix and match with Rush. But the Entrancement Enchant Kindred can then switch to bleed for speedier ousting.

Deep Song decks would also figure in here.


The proposed mechanic also says little for me walling up. Bleeding a few times in a turn but also have a good combat wall? Seems reasonably toolbox-y to me. Say, some of the grinder-wall decks out there. But I'm getting punished the same way the hyper-turbo stealth-and-bleed, no other cards, yawnathon deck is.

[quote="jamesatzephyr" post=31612]Kude wrote:


(for easier comprehension, note that he have typoed entrancement in place en enchant kindred)

Dorrinal wrote:


An alternative might be to give a bonus to very toolboxy decks.

Moving in Mysterious Ways
Unique Master
Put this card in play. During your discard phase, gain 2 pool and untap a minion you control if your minions have successfully taken at least 3 of the following actions: bleed, political action, equip, employ retainer, recruit ally, discover power, and enter combat.
Any minion may steal this card for his or her Methuselah as a action; your minions get +1 intercept when blocking this action.

Where the bonus is just something random I thought up. Could be anything.

jamesatzephyr wrote:


This is something I'd go with, but I'd most likely make it

Moving in Mysterious Ways
Event
Put this card in play. Once during his / her discard phase, any methuselah can tap one of their minions to gain two pool if their minions have successfully taken at least 3 of the following actions that turn: bleed, political action, equip, employ retainer, recruit ally, discover power, and enter combat.

Cause honestly, untapping minion to allow easy bounce / block even tho they acted that turn AND gaining pool? Not that fair combination. Maybe just leave the minions alone! Just get 2 pool if you've made 3 or more of those actions.

"at least 3 of the following actions that turn: ..."
-- not good text. Can I take 3 bleed actions? or 3 political actions?
Imho, it should be reworded to:
"...if their minions have successfully taken at least 3 different non-hunt actions."
..
But this text should be further improved, to fix the situation of 3 different "enter combat" or bleed, or politics cards.

jAvel wrote:


Or make it harder to achieve like next:

Moving in Mysterious Ways
Event
Put this card in play. Once during their discard phase, any methuselah can tap one of their vampires to gain two pool if their minions have successfully taken at least 3 of the following actions that turn: political action, equip action, employ retainer, recruit ally or any other non-hunt action. Each of these actions only counts once. Also if one of their ready minion successfully blocked an action since their last discard phase, gain 4 pool instead.


Blocking is quite toolbox basics, we can't forget that. And narrowing the actions you can take to 5 different categories makes it harder to get all 3. Note, that I changed the "tap one of their minions" to vampires instead. So they can't tap the ally they just recruited.

What do you think? I think it is rather balanced now. Sure, you might get once or twice good pool gain from it, but others have the chance too, and chance to mess your turn with blocks. Also, you are left with pretty many tapped minions.

To be honnest, I think it's quite useless, card text takes too much space, the impact on the game is annoying to say the least, and I can't imagine you would want to reward even more people who build up, since it's already a strong strategy.
Sorry, I can't imagine why such card would be created.