Hi!
If I play withering with first strike, is the opposing minion then able to play a strike that requires a discipline?

Name: Withering
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Thanatosis/Animalism
[ani] Strike: 1R damage.
[thn] Strike: hand strike. Place this card on the opposing minion. The minion with this card has -1 strength. Burn this card during his or her controller's next discard phase.
[THN] As [thn] above, and the minion with this card cannot play cards that require any Disciplines.

Yes since strikes are declared simultaneously, even if yours resolves first, the opposing minion has already played his strike at that point. They will be affected by the -1 strength when their strike resolves however.

Steinar wrote:
Yes.
When Withering is declared (CRR VI.C.1), the opposing minion can still play discipline cards and doesn't yet get -1 strength [LSJ 20020211].
When strikes resolve, the opposing minion gets -1 strength and can't play discipline cards anymore (for instance, they couldn't play Soak). But if that opponent declared a handstrike with 1 strength as their strike, the strike still resolves as 1 damage if Withering isn't with First Strike. If Withering is with First Strike, the opponent's strike is at -1 strength.

Pascal Bertrand wrote:

you must be mistaken my friend : if withering is played at first strike, the opponent gets the card placed on him before his strike resolves.
If his strike was "hands for one", it means "strength damage", not "one damage". So the incoming hands strike would resolve as a hands for 0 damage strike...

Reyda wrote:

Blast, I skipped the "first strike" part.
If Withering is used with First Strike, it resolves before the opposing minion's strike, and thus, the opposing minion's strike is at -1 strength.
Thanks !

This ruling is a bit illogical for me. I explain.

I play an aid from the bat, but my opponent play Immortal grapple. At strike resolution, I can't play the Aid, so I have no strike.

I play an aid from the bat, but my opponent play Withering strike with first strike. At strike resolution, my Aid from the bat is resolved anyway.

In a pure logical sense, I must admit having an hard time to see this as making sense. (also, it screw further first strike, which is already not the sexiest effect on earth)

My guess would be that you are allowed to 'play' the aid from bats in both cases (as a maneuver + strike that is) but the immortal grapple will limit your 'use' of it after it's played. The withering, once resolved, would only restricts the playing of the card.

Ohlmann wrote:

Withering allows you to declare strikes. Immortal Grapple forbids some strike declaration.

See also: You can play Burning Wrath with Immortal Grapple or Withering. It has nothing to do with the fact that Burning Wrath / Aid from Bats requires a discipline. What matters is when the effects of a card apply.
For non-strike (and non-action) cards, they resolve as the card is played.
For strike cards, the strike is resolved during the strike resolution, which happens after the strike declaration.
Immortal Grapple affects strike declaration. Withering doesn't.

Why is it illogical that two cards with different texts have different effects?

Louhi wrote:


That's right. Aid from Bats is "played" when you use the maneuver, assuming we're talking about when the optional maneuver is used. The strike from Aid from Bats is "declared" during strike declaration.

The Aid from Bats card is already played and in the ash heap during strike declaration (again, assuming you've used the optional maneuver), meaning it isn't affected by the Withering.